Sam Duckor-Jones
All images by and courtesy the artist.
My Johnny’s Gone To Hilo. Painted ceramic, Portage Ceramic Awards, 2014.
Sam Duckor-Jones speaks to flambouyant recluse Clay Man about desire & queer expression for arty loners in 2021 Aotearoa. This interview originally aired on September 23rd 2021 on 91ZM. The transcript is printed here with permission.
Full Length Mirror, detail. Painted ceramic, Auckland Botanical Gardens, 2017.
SDJ: Welcome back to the programme, it’s… 6 minutes past 3. Clay Man has been standing around, silent & saucy, since 2010. You may have seen him well lit in a gallery; you may have seen him in a park or a wealthy aunt’s foyer. Today he joins me in the studio to spill the T on his new memoir, Fire in the Heart. Kia ora Clay Man, how was the drive?
CM: Kia ora Sam. Good thanks. A strong young man wrapped me in a duvet & laid me down in his boot.
Lullaby, detail. Painted ceramic, Wellington Airport, 2019.
SDJ: Cute. I imagine you’re getting used to being carted around by strong young men. It’s been more than a decade.
CM: Mm, but it’s always nice to be held. I stand around by myself most of the time… Sam I was anxious about this interview, but I knew I’d be held along the way, so. Muscle. Heartbeat. Breath. Pretty nice. Sometimes I get shunted up onto a thigh… Worth the anxiety of engaging with the press haha
Please No Photos. Painted ceramic, Bowen Galleries, 2021.
SDJ: Well, press engagement is part of the deal these days. You wrote a book.
CM: I did.
SDJ: How did that come about?
CM: Actually, it’s directly related to how I stand around all the time & then am occasionally incidentally caressed. It got me thinking about touch & intimacy & sex & identity. What is one’s sexual identity if one doesn’t have sex & what is sex & what is queerness & why is queerness so wrapped up in sex, la la la.
Smoko. Painted ceramic, commissioned work, 2021.
SDJ: You write that queerness is more than a type of sexual attraction for you.
CM: Yep, yes. Like, you know, I get horny! I fall in love… But what am I supposed to do about it? Get on Grindr? Haha, no. So if I’m not acting physically on my horniness, what kind of queer Clay Man does that make me? The pressure to fuck is immense. Yet it’s become clear to me that queerness is bigger than who you go to bed with. Since I am queer & go to bed with no one.
Preach. Painted ceramic, Bowen Galleries, 2020.
SDJ: You’re saying that sex shouldn’t be a requirement of sexuality or of … sexiness?
CM: Yeah. Or at least not so central to the… like not so fundamental to a happy queer life. Queer culture is in part a fuck you to so called sexual & gender norms after all. Everyone’s queerness is particular. My queerness looks like this.
2021 Garden Path. Painted ceramic, commissioned work, 2021.
SDJ: I’ve known you a long time, Clay Man –
CM: – eleven years –
SDJ: – & have always found you sexy. You are a naked clay body with pink / black / gold skin or some fabulous mottled combination, who takes up space on glamorous piazzas with an active pinky finger & passive dick & I mean… that’s a choice. A very sexy choice. You are not heteronomous in this regard, Clay Man.
Birthday. Painted ceramic, commissioned work 2021.
CM: haha, cheers, I guess I’ve never been hetero- much at all ay?
SDJ: haha yes noted. & in that time you’ve always exuded queer excellence with a dignified solitude. It’s inspiring.
CM: Thanks Sam. Um.
Your Move, Princess. Ceramic, monoprints, expanding foam, paint, Bowen Galleries
SDJ: You ask some big questions in the book … are you satisfied with the answers?
CM: I wrote this book because… Look, I’m inanimate, my queerness has obvious expressive limitations… Then I watch how you put your hands all over me & how you twirl in the kitchen like a good gay & then run & run from fleshy affection when it comes around … My queerness doesn’t extend beyond the light in the room in which I’m installed. That’s ok. Yet you, with your perfect mobility, also remain alone, why Sam? That’s what I wanted to interrogate. As for answers, hmm. I’m not sure answers are what I need. I think just keep asking questions. Answers mean the end.
First I Lay With Adam. painted ceramic, Pah Homestead, 2019.
SDJ: You address my own queerness succinctly in chapter 10. I wonder if you’d read this passage out before you go. This one here…
CM: Sure. Let me just…ok “Queerness is a rich & moveable kaupapa. Engagement with one’s junk is like Chanukah: a minor holiday elevated by capitalist goyim for the sake of homogeneity & ease of storytelling. But look at us now. Singing Kol Nidre in sequins. Pants on. Queer af. Thriving”.
SDJ: & how. I’ve been talking with Clay Man, whose new memoir, Fire in the Heart, is out now. With 15 seconds to spare, Clay Man, where can listeners find you?
CM: I’m on twitter @ceramicfuckboi and @porcelaincumdump on insta
SDJ: Clay Man, everyone.
Summer Camp. Painted ceramic, WORLD, 2020.
HI!. Tinsel, painted ceramic, Aratoi Museum of Art and History, 2020.
Sam Duckor-Jones was born in Wellington in 1982. He is a self taught artist who hung around with potters in his early 20’s. Sam is a peer taught poet who has a Masters of Creative Writing from the IIML at Victoria University, for which he won the Biggs Poetry Prize in 2017. He has published two collections of poetry with Victoria University Press:People From The Pit Stand Up in 2018 and Party Legend in 2021. So Sam’s preferred media are clay and poem with which he often explores queer play and intimacy. He has exhibited widely and has work in notable public and private collections. His latest project is Gloria: an old church on the West Coast of Te Waipounamu that he is painting pink and filling with a new clay and papier mache congregation plus service leader and choir. All are welcome to worship at Sam’s sissy altar. He is represented by Bowen Galleries.